Sara Moore Wagner

Sara, you’re a mother. Has motherhood had any influence on your attitude and your poems?

It certainly has! I was not a very serious poet before I became a mother. Being a parent has given me more motivation to work towards my dreams, to set a better example for my children.

In my poems, I do talk about my kids a lot. Both of my chapbooks are centered around my oldest son and my experience of being a single mother with him. I think parenthood makes me see how fragile life is, and that’s something I am compelled to speak about in my writing.

How many pieces or poems have you written (and published) so far? And which one of them are you very proud of?

I have been publishing a lot in the past few years in particular, over 100 poems in literary journals in that time. I also have published two chapbooks (one is forthcoming from Red Bird Chapbooks), and I have two full lengths I am shopping around. I really do write a lot, I think because I am a mom in Ohio who feels separated from community and art. I make my own.

Recently, I had four poems come out in Waxwing, which was a dream publication for me. I’d have to say that is something I feel very proud of right now! You can read those poems here:

Passing it On:

Protective Services:

Narcan Metamorphosis:

In the End, We Are All Daughters:

Who is your audience, Sara? Do you constantly keep in touch with your readers? Have their comments helped you enhance your poems?

I think for most poets, our audience is other poets. I find I have been connecting with people more and more on Twitter. I have gotten the occasional note from someone who reads a poem in a journal and connects with it, then reaches out. That always makes my day!

The comments that most enhance my poems come from my close friends, Caroline Plasket, Christen Noel Kauffman, and Rae Hoffman Jager, who are all moms, all poets, and who all live within an hour of me. We offer each other constant attention and support, which has been invaluable to me.

Somewhere I read that you’re an Indian (Native American) woman. Is that true? Who are some famous native American poets? Do their works have some unique characteristics that (might) distinguish them from other American poets?

No, I do not consider myself to be a Native American poet. My grandfather (who is the subject of my chapbook Hooked Through) was, though. His parents had tribal Cherokee and Seminole connections in Appalachia, but he left to become a Pentacostal preacher in the city. He carried a lot of his parents’ traditions with him and told me those stories as a child, but as someone who grew up with no tribal affiliation, I would never claim that space.

There are so many AMAZING Native American poets out there, though. Of course, our poet laureate Joy Harjo is the first Native American appointed poet laureate and is someone everyone should study, read, and know. Other indigenous poets are Tommy Pico (Kumeyaay Nation), Jake Skeets (Black Street Wood), Layli Long Soldier (Lakota), Kenzie Allen (Oneda) and so many more. I think once a reader looks into indigenous poetics, they will see they are vastly different from each other, so I’d hate to say there is a distinguishing characteristic. I encourage every reader to read as many indigenous writers as possible, to hear their stories and celebrate those voices.

What is life like in your neighborhood? Do your surroundings aid you to have a better vision? Or does it distract you?

I live in the suburbs! It’s very uninspiring. We have a home owner’s association, and my neighbor has a perfect lawn he fusses over daily. It can be distracting because there’s not a lot of art and beauty in the suburbs, but I find ways to not blend into my surroundings. There’s a creek nearby where I take my children, and my backyard is full of trees, so I can go there and imagine I’m somewhere less generic.

Let’s talk about your most favorite poet. Who’s s/he? Why do you like her/his works? And would you please share one of her/his finest poems with us?

My original first love was Hilda Doolittle (H.D.), and I have always been drawn to the way she uses image (she’s an Imagist) and holds back from over explaining or confession. I also love her musicality and short lines. I was originally drawn to the way she uses myth, something I also do often in my own work, to recreate the male idea of a woman, to reclaim that. One poem that I memorized when I was younger, which is a great example of the image of Helen and how much meaning can come from that visual experience, is “Helen,” which you can read here:

It’s very hard to pick a favorite poet, though. My favorite book I read this year so far is Tiana Clark’s I Can’t Talk About the Trees without the Blood. Her writing floored me and made me want to be a better writer, as all good writing should.

Besides poetry, what else do you read and write? And apart from reading/writing, what other activities are you very fond of?

I really only write poetry, though one day I think I might like to branch out (maybe when the kids are older). I like to read a lot of things, though. I read fiction, grown-up books for myself when I have some time, and my eleven year old son and I read so many things together, we are getting through Watership Down right now.

I love learning about history and art, so in non-COVID times, we visit a lot of museums and cultural sites. I’m a big planner, so I love to plan holidays and parties and fun activities. I also just recently learned to ride a bike, so I am enjoying long bike rides with my husband when we get the chance.

Are your children also interested in poetry? Do you encourage them to read and write new poems?

My middle daughter (5) says she is a poet all the time. She loves to listen to me read poems (Emily Dickinson is her favorite!), and she will dictate poems to me often. She is amazing at it! My eleven year old tolerates poetry, but I do very much encourage him. I also go into his school every year to do a poetry lesson for the kids, and they all always love it. I hope the baby will be into it, too. I do share it with them as much as I can. As I said before, I write for them!

And my last question is about you. Put your hand on your heart please and listen to your heartbeat for a few seconds. What does Sara Wagner want from her life? What is she most concerned about? And where does she want to be ten years from now?

Right now, I am most concerned with getting through this year. It has been a very hard year, and I will be keeping my kids home with me this Fall. I want all of us to be happy, healthy, for there to be peace and fairness in my country, there’s a lot that needs to turn over and be uprooted for all that to happen, and I’m ready for it.

In ten years, I hope to be at peace with my own choices, and to be a source of pride to my kids and myself.


Jennifer A. Howard

Jennifer, if we could meet in person, where would you choose to sit and talk? A cafe? A bench facing the ocean? Your place? Or somewhere else?

Being out in the world sounds amazing these days. Can you imagine, a cafe! I do have a nice backyard, with a firepit. We could throw horseshoes, and sometimes deer visit. Let’s hang out there. (P.S. I don’t know that the ocean would ever come to mind. I’m a lake person. My town sits on Lake Superior, which is pretty glorious. Instead of sitting in my backyard, we could walk along the lakeshore and geocache.)

Somewhere I read, “Jennifer A. Howard is a first-generation Yooper”. What does that mean?

That statement is a little tongue-in-cheek. People in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, or the UP (or “Yoop”) are called “Yoopers,” and sometimes old-timers can be very rigid about who they consider a real Yooper. I was born here, in Escanaba, on the Lake Michigan shore, but since my parents were from downstate Michigan, I wasn’t really an insider like folks who’ve lived here for generations. I feel less of an outsider these days, though, living in Marquette, which is a college town with more influx of people from all over. In fact, maybe I’m an old-timer myself now.

Let’s talk about Passages North. You currently work as their editor-in-chief. Is that a full-time job? Would you please describe your workplace for me? What exactly are your responsibilities there?

My job as EIC of Passages North is a third of my full-time job. I’m a professor in the English department at Northern Michigan University, where I teach fiction writing and run the magazine. I get to work with grad students and undergraduate interns to build the magazine together, and it’s the best, most delightful part of my job. This year will be different, with a lot of our editing work moving online, but in regular times, we have a lovely office on the third floor with huge windows for snow-gazing and a blank wall for projecting poems and stories in meetings. I’m nostalgic for office times right now, but I’ll be patient about getting back there.

I know your father was an editor, too. I’d like to know more about him if that’s ok.

Super nice of you to ask. My dad was an English teacher at a community college and a poet. He was part of the crew of young teachers who founded Passages North in 1979, when it was more of a regional magazine, and I was ecstatic to join the magazine crew when I came to NMU, and even moreso to become its editor, because I remembered the days of those editors meeting in my living room when I was a little girl, overhearing adults talking about poems. I was hooked. My dad passed away a year ago, and I’m still — happily, gratefully — going through his papers, his own poems, his notebooks of meticulous and funny lists.

(To my daughters)
by Alan C. Howard
My last will was my first.
What I would give to you
I gave, so long before
You knew I’d know what gift
I’d give, or why or when.
There’s no exchange, no blame.
So don’t regret, but know
My will: once you have got,
Forget, beget, and give,
And give again, your gift.
by Alan C. Howard

Day darks, night brights, my mind thinking indrinks
      you in your crib justsleeping, breathing sighly,
      undriven dreaming, and I clockstuck grasp refracting
      rainbowed mindbeams of your justbornness,
      and I brainstrobe laughcries.
My brainstrobe timeprobes, kaleidostops,
      lasers by brightnow, rightnow flashes as I
      reeling touch you feeling my alwaysness—the
      of-my-self Eastermornborn newdawn no! -denial smile of
      you in your crib justsleeping—slidelike stillframed,
      sealedbeamed and everyhued.
But brainbeams also black refract, and I,
      forwardfilming, shuttershudder the toofastflicker,
      dreading and stalling the cradle-and-all downfalling
      and farewelling the nowmine mindpeace of
      you in your crib justsleeping, while I shun
      the gray, dark, dun someday youknow of myworld,
      insecuring and fearing your howcomes,
      and my dontknows
Dontknows die though, unthings unseen unsought
      by the reflecting spectral under-ultra, over-infra
      pastel prism of birthshine, and I breathe
      an aura of aurora’s child—
      you in your crib justsleeping—dawndreaming in your liferise,
      swaddled in tomorrowness, the echo of futurity
      and voice of starlight.

And you have some published works. As far as I know, they’re both short story collections. Right?

I have two chapbooks: How to End Up, published by New Delta Review, and You on Mars: Failed Sci-Fi Stories, published by The Cupboard Pamphlet. A third — Flat Stanley Reports Back to His Third-Grader — is completed but unpublished.

“I didn’t have a big idea for a book, so much as a series of little ideas over many years that grew like a tunnel of hard skin around a massive splinter in my finger. Or, to be less gross about it, I only realized I was heading toward a book when I decided to frame the fact that I wrote about a lot of the same concerns – motherhood and heartbreak and doubt — over and over again as a positive.”

Jennifer A. Howard on her flash fiction chapbook collection selected as the winner of NDR’s Annual Chapbook Competition by Jim Krusoe.

Jennifer, I do enjoy writing stories that take place overnight and it’s always raining in my works. Is there anything in your stories that appears again and again deliberately?

I realize you didn’t mean to limit me to weather, but I’m in love with snow on the page. Snow in stories, and in music, on TV. People are more beautiful with snow in their hair, snow makes everything more romantic and nervy. Can’t get enough of it. (Though I can certainly get enough of it in real life, especially when it’s spring other places and the UP is expecting yet another blizzard and I am in no mood to shovel yet again.)

Besides your published books, do you have some other works (available online) that readers can read for free?

Here’s a Flat Stanley story from last year: Most of the Flat Stanley stories deal with true crime, but this one is a little more personal. 

Which one is more challenging? Writing or editing? And which one do you like the most?

Oh, writing is so much more challenging. Editing the magazine is finding other people’s magic and being the lucky person who gets to share it with the world. I hate the blank page. If I could write a first draft in my sleep and then get to only be conscious for the revision part (which I love), that would be ideal.

Do you talk with yourself (to elucidate everything) when you start writing a new piece? Or do you just keep quiet and scribble down the work?

Definitely keep quiet. I don’t want to mess myself up by being articulate or clear about anything early on. 🙂

Do you think writers (because of the stories they read & the worlds they create in their minds) study every human as a distinctive character? Do you examine and study the people whom you meet?

Maybe a little, but I don’t walk around consciously thinking of people as characters. Though my stories don’t always have traditional characters. They feel more like little meditations. Certainly relationships with people build empathy and expand (I hope) stories beyond my own narrow brain, and sometimes people use fabulous and unusual phrasing that I’m happy to steal for the page, but nah, I think the people around me are mostly safe from being transcribed in my work.

And my last questions: what is Jennifer A. Howard like? (How would you describe your own character?) And who could be your close friend?

What a difficult question. I’m an introvert, I like a quiet routine and a close circle of friends. A person could become my close friend by actively and attentively playing in my fantasy football league, by only rarely being late when we have plans to meet, by going on a road trip with me and not making me listen to new music I don’t already know but instead playing some sort of crack-the-case game with me. Though I’m sure there are other ways in too.